Here is our dilemma.
As most of you know, we were originally going to go to UC Berkeley for law school. Fake out. Then we switched to Chicago. I don't know how I feel about possibly having yet ANOTHER fake out.
About two weeks ago, we heard back from Harvard Law. They decided to accept Dan off their wait list. This was a surprise because we had already committed to going to Chicago, and we had previously given Harvard a date to take us off the wait list. When they accepted us, we brushed it off. We had things set in Chicago. We were happy with the school, the housing, etc.
And then people started saying things to us. "Are you crazy?" they would ask. "How can you turn down Harvard?"
This got me to thinking--why the heck is Harvard the only school that people think is awesome? The average layperson knows nothing about the U of Chicago law school. They (I realize here that I have switched from singular to plural...go ahead and judge me as you will) don't know that it is ranked #2 in the quality of education--second only to Yale. That's right, ahead of Harvard. They don't know that Chicago is also ranked ahead of Harvard in career prospects. (These rankings are from the Princeton review). They also must not know that the average starting salary for a U of Chicago law graduate is $40K more than a Harvard law graduate's salary (here is where Dan will interject and say that is only because more Harvard graduates do clerkships--which is more "prestigious" on a resume, but doesn't have the most amazing salary) (I don't care about the explanation...I just like the numbers).
So, all of those reasons seem clear to me that Chicago is just as awesome as Harvard, even though it is slightly below in the overall rankings. Plus, not only is it just as awesome as a school, but it would be probably $30K cheaper overall, what with the lower rent prices and the small scholarship they gave us.
Why, then, does Harvard still carry such prestige? Is it just because it is old? It was founded in 1636, according to Wiki--my source for everything I don't already know. That is pretty old. John Adams did go there--and he's pretty awesome. But should that really matter?
Is prestige really that important? Dan seems to think that it may help him get more clients once he starts his own firm, if he ever does (this is likely 15 years down the road from now), and also in other firms he works for. So, I am asking you, readers. Without knowing anything else about the lawyer, would you seek out a Harvard graduate more so than a Chicago graduate? Is the reputation of your school really a big deal? Is that what our decision comes down to?
I haven't given much thought to what I would look for in a lawyer, however; I want to think I would put much more weight in their experience, success, references, etc, than in the school they went to 20 years ago. But I do have this to say about Harvard. I just spent a week in Boston and absolutely loved it. What a great place to visit for sure, I'm not qualified to say about living there though. I did hear from some friends there that Harvard law students are notorious for being a bit conceded and for having delusions of grandeur. Take that for what you will.
ReplyDeleteOk, here are the Mike comments first: "University of Chicago has a great law school. Dallin H. Oaks went there and taught there!"
ReplyDelete"Honestly, I hope I don't have to seek out lawyers much in the future. But I would look more to the referrals that I got about them than what school they went to."
I think that you also have to consider where you want to end up. I've noticed here in the east there is a bit of snobbery when it comes to those Ivy League schools. (Ok, actually, there is probably Ivy League snobbery wherever there are Ivy League grads.) People seem to think that you will get the best education at an Ivy League school. Most expensive education, sure, but best? I don't agree necessarily (especially with undergrads). I have a tendency to focus on the bottom line. You know, will the earning potential of the Harvard name outweigh the costs of attending? I don't think so if your alternate is University of Chicago, which is a well known, well respected school.
With all that said, and I'm not sure if any of it makes sense, if you choose Harvard, we'd love to have you guys that close to us!
I definitely think you should stick with Chicago. Granted, I'm a little biased (I did live there for a year and a half), but I love the city, and tons of people still look at it as an awesome school.
ReplyDeleteThat's a hard decision. I don't know what to tell ya except that Harvard does seem to have quite the reputation. I guess just make it a matter of prayer, which I'm sure you already have! Good luck with that, wish I was helpful, but I'm no law student :)
ReplyDeleteI think (not that you care much except that you want me to comment on your blog) that prestige is no reason to go to a school. Dan will get an excellent job coming out of either school and can build clients by building his own reputation for great work. School's cool, but character counts. I would rather have people want me because of me and not because I went to some school. I am not cool because I wear designer jeans. Andy is not a good employee just because he went to Cornell. Dan would have a successful career if he went to BYU law school. Character and hard work matter most and he's got it and will succeed no matter where he goes. Good luck!
ReplyDeleteSeems we got quite a few strikes against Harvard here.
ReplyDeleteJamon--nice wording there with the "delusions of grandeur." I can't stop thinking of it :).
Wendi--How far are you guys from Harvard? It would be fun to be close!
Mary & Lindsay--both good comments.
Stephen--Don't be so hard on yourself :). But, nice Office reference. And yes, Dan is awesome.
And a more general response: We don't want to go to Harvard just so people will think we're cool. We just have to consider the fact that it would likely open up more doors for us, especially internationally. With the expansion of international dealings in intellectual property and patent laws, it is definitely something to consider. Few people have heard of U of Chicago outside the U.S., I think. I will be happy wherever we go...I just want to hurry and get the decision over with!
Dan and Elise this is a toughie. But can I just say that the fact that Dan was accepted to BOTH of the prestigious institutions means that he's already a rock star?
ReplyDeleteI will say that Chicago is a great place to visit but I love living in the East. School is such a small part of your career so I’m with Stephen, character is what counts. You’ll make the right choice! Good luck!
Ah, the joys of making heavy, life-changing decisions! :) I would have to say that probably the average person (and let's face it, the average person is not the sharpest knife in the drawer) would think harvard was better because they've heard of it. But, in our experience in medicine, people within a particular field are pretty well aware of the quality of education at different schools. For example, most doctors know which medical schools are better, and which residency programs within their specialty provide the best training. So, as far as job prospects with existing law firms, I would think they would consider chicago and harvard graduates pretty equally, and just be looking at the individual's grades, work ethic, whether they play nice with the other kids, etc. Good luck, wherever you choose to go!!
ReplyDeleteElise, I'm so glad you guys found our blog. I finally feel included in this whole blogging mania that seems to be going on. I had no idea that almost everyone has a blog! Now we can keep each other updated as life gets crazy. Violet is so cute by the way. And, about your decision, all I have to say is that I wish I had to make the decision about whether or not my husband would go to Harvard! What a blessing that Dan has the opportunity to choose between so many good schools!
ReplyDeleteDan wants to support his family, but he also loves to be of service to others. In his capacity as a lawyer, could he be of better service to his clients with a better education? I'm sure Harvard is more than adequate. But, if U. of Chicago offers a better education, can you do more good for the clients you get?
ReplyDeleteOf course I know the Lord's will factors in all this. You are a great couple and best of luck!